My 'faithful' PSP9 has just been retired

Community Forums/Developer Stations/My 'faithful' PSP9 has just been retired

D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#1]
Im bored at work so thought id share.

Up till now I have been using Paint Shop Pro on both Windows and on Linux (using wine) and all's been great. I have been using Paint shop pro since the Dos/Windows 3.1 days for drawings, and other 'arty-farty' stuff.

I recently went on holiday and my laptop had no PSP or wine installed on it, so i downloaded the latest gimp. I have been using this too for a while but only for certain filter and transparency operations. I grudgingly started using it for some complicated drawing stuff and was soon swearing at the interface.

Rather than giving up with it like i usually do, I decided to investigate exactly how this horrid program was supposed to work. Not being a "mac-photoshop" (the multiple windows) or a "win-photoshop" (odd shortcuts) type person everything was making me crazy. Tools kept dissapearing behind images and other infuriating problems.

Anyway. I found out it can be quite comfortable to use with a few options changes and it is more way more powerful than i first thought, its all there, its just in strange places:

-It does have editable text layers after all.
-the path tool is very usable and much better than i thought. (especially when the paths and layer dialogues are docked in the tabber)
-my old moan about LMB for 1 color and RMB for another is easily fixed by pressing X. (I guess this is a PShop thing)
-The dissapearing tools can be assigned to the little-used "menu key" between ctrl+alt under prefs -> key shortcuts -> dialogs -> tools
-Once all the dialogue boxes are docked under the tools (as tabs), they too can be accessed by menu key.
-The way the layers once you know how, work better than in PSP.
-Response from my tablet works better.
-It has some good filters too (so does PSP but i cant remember there being this many in gimp).
-It FINALLY has a proper brush scale slider
-The clone tool does have a 'parallel' mode after all.

A week ago if you had said choose Gimp over PSP i would have said "Not on your nelly!". While i guess its no photoshop (but i have never needed or liked that anyway) it is certainly superior to what i have been using all this time and is perfect for the arty stuff.

If you do not have photoshop and have not tried gimp for a while i strongly reccomend looking at it again.

Digital Anime(Posted 2008) [#2]
I use PSP9 + PSP6 myself because I am used to the way it works.

I tried Gimp also in the past and didn't like it at all, I hated the interface as well.

Reading this I'm thinking about giving Gimp another go to see what has changed over time.

D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#3]
I tried Gimp also in the past and didn't like it at all, I hated the interface as well.
Exactly how i felt. Its funny I hated the interface too until i was forced to use it for a week. :D

(I still dislike the default settings but i had no idea how configurable it is)

Try making the modifications i mentioned above, if you use PSP shortcuts, map those too it makes it much more pleasurable to use.
(especially the "menu key" one -to bring up the tools, then open all the dialogues and drag them to the tabber below the tools palette :)

markcw(Posted 2008) [#4]
I used to hate GIMP but I'm getting more used to it now, I still struggle with it though. For example, maybe someone knows how to fix this.

When I open an image in the latest GIMP it defaults to green paintbrush and draws all over the image when I move the mouse over it. I have to remember to switch to rect before I open anything.

D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#5]
weird! not had that.

I usually load images by clicking on the files.

Try setting the tool to rectangle, go to preferences and choose save tool layout/auto save layout (theres a few of them).

Also, check the settings under input devices, mabe it thinks you have a tablet or wierd mouse so is causing it to behave weird.

markcw(Posted 2008) [#6]
Yes, that did it thanks Dan. I clicked on Tool Options>Save Tool Options Now, there's also a 'Save tool options on exit' checkbox but I don't think I'd like that.

I've just realised what the green paintbrush thing is. It draws green over the image but when I minimize and restore the green is gone so it's some kind of bug. I don't think the last version of GIMP had this problem. The same thing happens with several other tools. I'll have to fix it if I want to use GIMP for any artwork.

D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#7]
I wonder if its hardware related. Cant honestly say i have seen it do this before, although I have not tried the latest windows version yet so perhaps the problem is platform specific.
What are you running it on?

markcw(Posted 2008) [#8]
Ubuntu 8.04 with no hardware drivers and no effects. I have an old ATI 7000 but I don't think it recognizes the card.

QuickSilva(Posted 2008) [#9]
Are there any user galleries that showcase Gimps abilities? I couldn`t find any on their site and would like to have a look as to what people can do with the program.


D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#10]
Quite a few i should think, here is some:

Theres a lot of tutorials scattered about too, try You can essentialy do everything you can in paintshop or photoshop drawing wise.
It simply lacks some of the more professional photographic tools, but is a good enough photo editor too for most people.
I guess the only limit is your imagination :/

@markcw, could be the problem.
Is it because you dont want to use the nvidia N.F. driver?

otherwise, if not:
Try this to install and do all the config for you: (proprietry driver)
(it looks complicated but really isn't, just a few lines to copy-paste into term. I reccomend printing the 'what do do if it doesnt work bit' - just in case ;)

It has never failed me yet though (NV 5200, 6800, 7600 & ATI HD2300). (it installs the program on the apps->system tools menu btw!)

markcw(Posted 2008) [#11]
Er, no. I wasn't aware I could use the nvidia NF driver with an ATI 7000.

Hardware Drivers is just empty and tells me 'No proprietry drivers in use on this system'.

D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#12]
Correct, most linux distros will do this to keep the entire distro 'clean' from un-modifiable programs. Ubuntu has free open source "nv" drivers that tend to work well with older hardware (like geforce 4 for example). The GF XXXX cards tend to need the proprietry ones if you want to benefit from proper 2d and 3d acceleration. Otherwise the system simply defaults to vesa if the free nv driver fails.

To get the proper compatibility with later cards you need to install the "real" nvidia drivers. The program ENVY (i told you about) is designed to do all this for you, for both the more recent Nvidia and ATIs.

You can tell when 3D acceleration is running by using the command: "glxinfo" or more specifically "glxinfo |grep direct". A frame FPS test is available by typing "glxgears". My old FX5200 would do about 1900 fps so yours should totally beat that. My laptop's ATI does around 2600.

markcw(Posted 2008) [#13]
Well that didn't work. I installed EnvyNG for Ubuntu 8.04 and automatic detection didn't work so I tried manual and it installed and rebooted. Then I tried testing all the ATI Radeon cards because my card wasn't there and none worked. So I booted with the default vesa driver and found I only had 640x480 screen resolution, so I unistalled envy from the package manager but I'm still in 640x480 mode. Thanks anyway.

Edit: ok, I booted into recovery mode and choose 'Try to fix xserver' and that got my screen resolutions back.

D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#14]
Ahhh ATI 7000, sorry i was thinking geforce 7XXX series, which usually work well first time.

On the menu you should have the envyNG program's gui based config program. It has to be the ATI one you select not Nvidia then it goes off and gets the right driver and installs it, then does the settings for you.

Sorry about that :O

Htbaa(Posted 2008) [#15]
Hi D4NM4N! Sorry for hijacking your topic, but I was wondering if you somehow missed my order for SpriteForge earlier today. I'm eagerly waiting for the license key to start using it.

Could you perhaps take a look? My e-mail address begins with c.kras@ :-). Thanks.

QuickSilva(Posted 2008) [#16]
Just out of interest, how buggy is Gimp in its present state? Last time I tried the program crashed all of the time, are things any better now?


Htbaa(Posted 2008) [#17]
I've used Gimp a couple times in the last few years. Never had a crash though.

markcw(Posted 2008) [#18]
Well it was worth a shot Dan. :)

Same here, no crashes, just the latest version draws green noise with certain tools, the previous version worked fine. What OS was GIMP crashing on you Quicksilva?

D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#19]
how buggy is Gimp in its present state?

Gimp is solid as a rock on windows and linux, ive never had it crash (although ive only recently started to use it as primary tool. I do know it has a reputation for being very stable).

DONT USE "GIMPSHOP" though, it will mess up your installation and while it has the single window thing it is horrid and crashes all the time!

@markcw, try posting the problem on Ubu/gimp forums, someone must have seen this before or know why. :/

Could you perhaps take a look? My e-mail address begins with c.kras@ :-). Thanks.
I did dispatched a few last night and this morning. I will take another look when i get home.

Has it arrived since you posted?

QuickSilva(Posted 2008) [#20]
Ah, I think that I was using GimpShop before so that was probably the cause of my problems. I`m using WinXP by the way.


Htbaa(Posted 2008) [#21]
Received it D4NM4N! Thanks. I'm going to have some fun with it now :-).

QuickSilva(Posted 2008) [#22]
Just wanted to ask if there is a place where you can can the precompiled versions of the program. I see that there is an installer for the stable version (2.4 I think) but I would like to have a go at the latest beta.

Are precompiled versions available as I have no idea as to how to compile it myself.



D4NM4N(Posted 2008) [#23]
Im using 2.4.6 i dont know where the betas are, try sourceforge. I dont know if there will be binaries though but usually you just type 'make' and it should build it.