Community Forums/Developer Stations/GameSpace

Zenn Lee(Posted 2007) [#1]
This is a pretty cool 3D modeler. I've been using the light
version and it is really easy to work with, though you have
to use an on screen button to move around your viewport, it
get kinda slow:( I have to say I love Maya more, but who's
got $5000.00, not me:) Overall this is a great buy for

Just though I would let you guys know about my discovery.

Here's the link!

Amon(Posted 2007) [#2]
I Started off with Gamespace light and moved on to the full Truespace 7 + Gamepak.

GamePak is basically Gamespace but for Truespace.

I've had ups and downs with Caligari software and have recently been thinking on if I should move on to something else.

I was thinking of Cinema4D or XSI Foundation. Both show more stability than any of the Caligari Products.

I guess the last chance I'll give Caligari is with Truespace 7.5 and VRay 1.5, both of which I've purchased and will be out in 6 days.

You may want to check out Silo3d. Silo3d is $109 worth of modeling powerhouse tools.

It's cheaper than Gamespace and more powerful. Plus if you buy now you get access to the Silo2 beta and eventually the full version when it is released.

linky here

Reactor(Posted 2007) [#3]
Truespace is good for certain things, but if you're building a lot of content the camera movement controls will drive you insane. I worked on a game for 8 months with it and by the end I switched to XSI. XSI isn't perfect at everything, but it's so much faster to use than Truespace it's just silly.

If Caligari fix their camera system I may look at it again. For now though, I'll give 7.5 a miss. It's a good tool to have in your toolbox, but it's not something you'd want to use all day long.

Matty(Posted 2007) [#4]
Having used both Gamespace and XSI - I regret purchasing Gamespace (what a waste of $299 US) when compared to the ease of use, stability, excellent renderer and all round features of XSI (which the version I have, foundation, is $500 US)

Amon(Posted 2007) [#5]
What about Cinema 4d? I've tried the demo and it seems a solid app.

Thanks to the exchange rate XSI Foundation will only cost me about 260 squids but Cinema4d on it's own, no added modules, will cost 500.

I didn't get too in to XSI when I tried the demo. It also insisted that it were to be installed to the root of my c: drive ie, C:\Softimage\XSI.

Dunno, I gues I'll have to decide soon or just wait for Silo2 to come out of beta and use that for modelling and Truespace for everything else.

That's the one thing that annoys me about Truespace. It's modelling tools are OK but when you see stuff like Silo which costs $109 you begin to wonder why you paid such a high price for Truespace.

Matty(Posted 2007) [#6]
Sorry, never used Cinema 4d - well not really - I had a copy which came with a 3dworld magazine a long time ago and at that time I was very new to 3d graphics and couldn't work out how to use it properly. One of the good things for non artists like myself with high end 3d apps is that art can look a little less like 'programmer art'.

Reactor(Posted 2007) [#7]
Truespace is a great tool for beginners... that's why I picked it up years ago. Rendering with Vray is good, and there are a lot of things it can do that Silo can't... nurbs, physics, shader stuff, etc.

Cinema 4D is solid, for sure, but it's also costly. The only reason I'm sometimes temped by C4D is to get Bodypaint with it (I'd *really* love a 3D painting program right about now) but the addons are costly, and the upgrades are costly.

XSI on the other hand is a fairly self contained program. What features you get with your version is pretty much the end of the story, and that's nice. But, XSI doesn't really have upgrades ($100 off the cost of a new version of Foundation- w00t! A $400 upgrade!) and most of the bug fixes are left for the next version, or for people who have a pro maintenance license. A very complex program, but a good one all the same... as long as you don't have to have the latest version of your suite every year.

Modo is cool as well, but it's modelling tools need work. Combined with something like Silo (or even Wings3D), Modo would rock, unless you need animation.

Just out of curiosity- what are you looking at using a 3D suite for?

Amon(Posted 2007) [#8]
Just out of curiosity- what are you looking at using a 3D suite for?

Well, I originally wanted to have a set of tools all in one app. I wanted a UV Mapper, the ability to make boned animations and add bones to models, good modelling tools and a powerful renderer. Truespace had all this.

I've seem some pretty good CG images created with Truespace on the Caligari forums and wanted to get in to that myself.

Reactor(Posted 2007) [#9]
Just a little XSI comparison to TS here- I'm not sure what TS7.5's UV mapper is like (I only have 7.1, and it runs like a dog because of my old 3D card) but TS6.6's sucked badly. XSI's kills it dead, except for the lack of pelt mapping... which TS lacks anyway, I believe.

XSI is superb for animation. I don't think TS is ever going to get close to XSI in this respect. I watched some videos of 7.5's animation capabilites, and even though TS has physics on its bones (something XSI Foundation lacks) the rest of the package is just so much stronger. When you see that the entire rig and model for Godzilla (from the movie) was made and animated in a really old version of XSI (before it was XSI, actually), you realise just how much potential is in the program. Truespace has a couple of quirky models, and that's about it. The difference is huge. Of course, so is the learning curve, so it's best to purchase XSI with training- bundled if possible.

Modelling in XSI is really, really good. It lacks a few things I'd like to have, but the rest is so good you forget about those things pretty fast. Truespace has some good tools (a few XSI could really use, which look great in TS7.5) but TS's toolset is painfully slow to use. I'd choose XSI over it any day, unless you want to do architecture, and then you'll need to work in a more specific program. XSI just isn't built for it. Coupling Silo with any program could be a good choice, but you'll need to check to make sure your pipeline works properly. Truespace can handle a lot of formats (with a plugin) but XSI lacks support for... well, a lot.

Vray is good. If you have it for TS, you're working with a great renderer (if you weren't aware). XSI's Mental Ray is a production proven renderer and, I think, more flexible than Vray in the looks it can produce. Vray is typically used for architectural renders, while Mental Ray is used for just about anything. To get the most out of Mental Ray you'll need to learn about the best way to tweak it, though. Most people bork at the thought, but learning about rendering is a smart move in my book. If you want to produce a nice render without much effort, look to Carrara 5. It's a much better program for producing quick renders which look great, than TS's standard renderer, Lightworks.

Summing up: I like XSI a lot. Everything you really need for game work is contained in one package. It is with TS as well, but TS is, as I found a while back, really slow to use once you get going. It's also really thin on proper workflow methodoligies. XSI forces you to use proper directories, name things as you go, and organise your content! Also, things like its non-destructive hierarchy and construction modes really do help in the long run. Truespace is still mostly a toy.

If you like having fun and keeping things simple, stick with TS. If you want to get a little more serious and learn a more correct way of working, give XSI a shot. That's my two cents :D

Garion(Posted 2007) [#10]
Another vote for XSI here.

I am using version 5.11 and have not upgraded to version 6 as most of the new features were for Essentials and Advanced.

As I have said before I have only just scratched the surface of it and have no need to upgrade at the moment. My plan is to wait for version 7 and see whats what and if all is well I will order during the $100 discount period.

My main gripe with Foundation is the dearth of Import/export options, but I have standerdised my work flow by using OBJ files and 3D Exploration any file convertions, if needed.

I too am waiting on Truespace 7.5 as I get the free upgrade, but it will have to be something very special and may be the last version I buy.

Only time will tell.



Reactor(Posted 2007) [#11]
"My plan is to wait for version 7 and see whats what and if all is well I will order during the $100 discount period."

I'll be doing the same.

"My main gripe with Foundation is the dearth of Import/export options..."

Agreed... that's XSI's biggest weakness.

Matty(Posted 2007) [#12]
Garion - I wrote a post a while ago in this particular forum that shows how to export from XSI a boned-animated mesh into b3d using the ActorX plugin for XSI (exports Unreal format animation/meshes) and then exporting that from Milkshape3d into b3d.

The dotXSI format is really easy to read, and I would imagine should not be too difficult to write a converter into b3d format. While I don't like to say it is beyond my ability to do that, I lack the patience and inspiration to sit down and actually do it myself.

Garion(Posted 2007) [#13]
Hi Matty,

Aye, there are ways to get it done, at the moment I am just using the obj format for some work I am doing for a client and am similary short of time...

It's coming into summer too sooooo 'Dads Taxi' will be out and about taking the Nearest and Dearest, along with the Bairns out on day trips :D

Sigh I have less time now that I am retired than I did when I worked full time :D



Zenn Lee(Posted 2007) [#14]
So it sounds like Silo3d or XSI is the way to go. I just
figured out how to use and work with gameSpace after hours
and hours reading though tutorials;'(

Thanks a ton for all the help! I'll try out Silo3d and see how it works.


Garion(Posted 2007) [#15]
Try ALL the demo's and choose the one that yoo are comfortable with and fits into your pipeline.

For XSI have a look at there is a lot of info, scripts, plugins and addons etc listed there along with a superb knowledge base.

Be aware that XSI can take some getting used to, it's not perfect, like every application out there it has it shortcomings. I have been using it off and on since version 4 and I am still just scratching the surface. A lot of the features I may never use, but it's nice to know that they are there.

Also, Avid use the same GUI for all versions of XSI, so yoo may find some features greyed out; hair and fur for instance , look at the comparison chart on the Softimage site so that yoo can make an informed choice.

Yoo could also try the FREE XSI Modtool.

Silo; I Have Silo and have used it in the past, but remember its a modleller with no renderer. Its a usefull tool to have though and I found it easy enough to get to grips with, I have just not had an opportunity to use it much lately.

Truespace 7.5 is due for release at the end of the week (i think) I am looking forward to it with mixed feelings, but will give it a fair go. The hair and new animation tools look interesting, but we shall see :D

I am a bit of a 3D app Slapper, I collect all the ones I can afford and between them they allow me to get my work done in my usual chaotic fashion :D



JustLuke(Posted 2007) [#16]
Am I the only one who likes Lightwave? Apparently so.

Reactor(Posted 2007) [#17]
I'm interested in Lightwave as well, but I'm waiting until I have the cash to grab FPrime when I pick it up.

Zenn Lee(Posted 2007) [#18]
Hey, Silo doesn't look like what I'm looking for. I want
software that will allow me to UV map, animate, and export as
a .x file, or a .b3d file, all in one. Something simple to use that will work well for game dev. Have any other ideas.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Reactor(Posted 2007) [#19]
The word simple doesn't really belong in the same sentence as 3D animation and texture work... and that's because the more simple you get, the more you lose control over what it is you're doing. 3D is complex at heart, and the closer you get to that complexity, often the more helpful it is to the artist.

Some choices are:

Truespace 7.5
-I think the UV mapper has been improved from previous versions, which had horrible ones. It's a fairly simple program (only 7.5- don't look at version 7), but good for (slow) game work. You should be able to do almost anything with it, but try the demo to see if your 3D card works well with it. You can dumb the program down to suit older cards, but you lose a lot of the program's features.

Blender3D + Wings3D
-Wings3D replaces Blender's sub-standard modeling tools. If you can handle the interface (good luck figuring out animation without proper tutorials!), it'll do what you want for free. Strong UV mapping, and now has things like renderbaking.

Lightwave or XSI
-More complex, but also much stronger in many areas. Strong UV mapping, animation toolsets... etc etc. Both are good because they're fairly cheap (XSI's Foundation version is pretty much all you need for game work), and Lightwave is well priced for what it can do.

Those are the suites which aren't amazingly costly, can animate things, and have decent UVing for game work.

Zenn Lee(Posted 2007) [#20]