3D Studio Max 8 is out.

Community Forums/Developer Stations/3D Studio Max 8 is out.

Amon(Posted 2005) [#1]
Just thought I'd post this.


big10p(Posted 2005) [#2]
Just as soon as I win the lottery... nah, not even then. :)

Shambler(Posted 2005) [#3]
It's out alright...out of most peoples budgets =)

Vorderman(Posted 2005) [#4]
Well we're using it at work and so far as I can see it's another pointless upgrade introducing loads more bugs and not fixing the existing ones. The STUUUUPID zoom thing is still there, the zoom worked fine in Max5, but for Max7 they introduced this zoom-stopping thing where the zoom slows down and then stops - WHY???? It is the most inane, stupid, totally crap idea I've ever had the misfortune to have to use on a daily basis. ARGH.

A cynical person would think Autodesk deliberately introduce these bugs from version to version so people have no choice but to upgrade each time....

Big&(Posted 2005) [#5]
Totaly agree Vorderman.
Pelt mapping is really nice though.

Vorderman(Posted 2005) [#6]
Just a few weeks spent ironing out the multitude of small bugs could transform Max into a slick piece of software, rather than one where the user has to fight it to get anything done.

As for the crashes....how do they make the program obliterate every file you had open that session, rather than just the one you were working on at the time the crash happened?

And I just love the selective undo, the one that works all the time until you do something you really didn't mean to, whereupon the undo promptly stops working. Oh thank you very much >:(

I get the feeling that the people at Autodesk don't really use Max at all, they just write stuff, test it on a simple cube object, then package it up and off goes the next 'essential' upgrade.

Excuse my ranting, but when you use something like this all of every single day you grow to hate it. When I worked at ATD one of the artists would regularly stand up screaming abuse at the screen, smash his keyboard repeatedly on the desk, hurl the mouse across the room and then storm off for a while...very funny at the time though :)

Robert Cummings(Posted 2005) [#7]
I am with you on the zoom. It is idiotic. You can click zoom selected or zoom extents selected to "reset" this value when it starts becoming a total pain in the arse.

However it needs fixing. I really don't like it. I think it may be possible to make a max script to work around it using fps walkthrough controls? Don't know.

As for the other bugs, I do not encounter them, thank the lord.

puki(Posted 2005) [#8]
And for all the Max wannabes out there:

Take note of the 30 day trial version.

Handy if you have a load of models that are in .Max format and you just need to convert them.

AdrianT(Posted 2005) [#9]
I like max 8, its faster has excellent shader support in DX9, not mush use for blitz3d though. But it does create decent .FX and HLSL files direct from the material editor.

Did a masked brick to metal texture with a specular mask on the shiny metal, and a bump map and it came out perfect in the viewports and in rendermonkey.

pelt mapping is cool, don't have any zooming issues which only crop up when you work to a small scale. 1:1 can be a problem though :)

I have very few problems with it outside of vertex colours, having them at the top of a modifier stack and modifying things below can crash it.

Seems more stable than most software and certainly better than previous versions, about the same as Maya maybe better even where stability is concerned. And it does so autobackups for those rare occasions that it doenst save on crashing.

boomboom(Posted 2005) [#10]
for games XSI: Foundation has everything 3dmax has and is much cheaper

AdrianT(Posted 2005) [#11]
I havent bothered looking at XSI as it has almost no support in the games industry. Kind of unfortunate as it is the newest 3D app with a good pedigree.

Max seems particularly suited to level design and interiors, which seems to be where it gets used most exclusively in commercial games. For props and character stuff almost anything goes.

With Blitz3D, I can't really recommend anything else but 3dsmax, mostly due to the rather brilliant b3D pipeline exporter. That cintegration into blitz makes it worth the price of max alone. (If Blitz3D is your primary development tool).

Vorderman(Posted 2005) [#12]
Well I've been using AC3D and despite being very used to the way Max works, I really like AC3D - it's pretty simple to use, but has enough power to model almost anything an indie game would require, with the exception I suppose of stuff using multitextures, shaders and suchlike.

Once it gets a proper .b3d exporter and thus inbuilt b3d material properties it'll be fantastic. As it is, .x exports work perfectly, or you can convert them to .b3d via something like Milkshape.

Robert Cummings(Posted 2005) [#13]
The pipeline for max is unmatched though, particularly with giles.

You export 2 files: b3d for model, materials and texturing (with up to 8 layers of texture effects), and then ASE for just the lights.

Import both into giles and hit render - the lights are almost identical to the max render. From there you just need minor tweaking.

boomboom(Posted 2005) [#14]
Evak, from what I have seen Maya is the most widely used 3d app now days in the games industry (well at least in the south of england where I live). But XSI is making in roads. Lionhead have just switched there main production pipeline to it, (along with all there engine tools), from maya, and its the most populer software in japan both in movies and games (with capcom and I beleave konami noticably using it). Oh and of course half life was made using it, and blur have switched from max to it for there stuff. and ubisoft...etc etc

The best thing is that the devs are based in montreal, which is really becoming the hotbed of american style games. http://www.montrealmirror.com/2005/102705/news2.html

So its definatly getting there, but it still has a while before it is really well known for its game stuff. But you should have alook into it, its got some pretty cool game tools; zbrush importer, normal map generation, realtime shaders in the viewport, ability to load your game into an xsi viewport and edit it live. Plus its well priced for indies.

More detials about specific game features : http://www.softimage.com/Products/Xsi/v5/industry_solutions/games/

Some cool videos from valve and other companies using it : http://www.softimage.com/Community/Xsi/Video_Gallery/default_flash.asp

But I agree with One Eyed Jack, that max is much better atm for blitz, mainly due to the pipeline. But I wonder how many people actually have a legal licence (since gmax can't really be used). Really max should take out everything fancy and make a cut down 'indie gamers' version, that would be cool. Prahaps they will do that whilst winding down the product as they develop there new maya/max hybrid.

Anyway, I am happy with my XSI

AdrianT(Posted 2005) [#15]
THing is, if you check out the artist and level design jobs on Gamasutra, almost all the jobs going in the past couple of months have been primarily 3dsmax or maya.

Estimate about 10-20% 3dsmax specific, 80% combined maya and/or 3dsmax, and 10ish% others like XSI, unrealed, lightwave etc.

I know it doesn't add up ; but a quick scan of the animator, 3d artist, environment artist and level design jobs on gamasutra.com will show you what I mean.

Other than that, for indies, most tools have more of a max focus, with very little native support for maya and XSI except through file formats that typicaly aren't game friendly without a lot of intermediate tools.

Last place I worked at, we used Maya for all character animation and a large portion of character modeling, and 3dsmax for all level design and setting up gameplay, environment modeling, interiors, and vehicles.

This seems to be quite a common scenario, as they tend to be the best in those particular jobs.

Jay Kyburz(Posted 2005) [#16]
I don't know about you guys, but we are modelling every single asset in high poly and generating a normal map from it for our next game. (xbox 360). Has to look NEXTGEN you know!

Robert Cummings(Posted 2005) [#17]

Look in newfeatures.pdf for 3dsmax 8: they've fixed the mouse zooming issue. You need to tweak the new increment value for mouse.

Red Ocktober(Posted 2005) [#18]
it's OUT huh...

OUT is the right phrasing for me...

OUT OF REACH if i want to keep living in this house with this wife...

she'd kick my behind left and right... and then left again if i put this one on the plastic...


ahhhhh... maybe i'll do it and just not tell 'er :)


maximo(Posted 2005) [#19]
I just bought my self Silo3d, for modeling it seems like perfect choice...

Bob3d(Posted 2005) [#20]
hehe, let's see what's happen with the aquirement of maya by Autodesk...

BTW, it depends a lot in the country or region. Where I live, is all bout Max. Yet to work at one where they ask me for Maya, for games. It's even forcedly Biped when aiming to an animation job...

I guess in other places would be all bout Maya.

I saw some stats long ago and was yet max dominating in games, but sincerelly I dunno (and if now it's all a single company, go guess what'll happen...) Maya and xsi allways dominated the film and tv fields... Look, some google finds :

"at companies working primarily in feature film and high-end commercial production (jobs not primarily focused on interactive media or games"

lol, can't find charts for games companies...

BTW, I do allways in jobs use max for animation...for level integration...lightmaps...

but mainly I use other faster organic modelers. Other uvmapping soultions. Usually free or cheap.

BTW, Max 8 has certain very interesting improves, spacially in biped...Go download the video, is quite self explanatory...Or well, those interested in max animation.

If you'd ask me I'd LOVE to animate with XSI at work..

Who knows if even Blender when final oficial 2.40 is released, indeed,was playing with alpha 2 automatic IK and ghosting (similiar to my xsi one, hehe) ...but go convince a boss. Ha! ;)

I think yup, Max is a bit crashy but not really something to worry about...

And is quite productive tool, a neck saver in games. I handled a bit Maya for level editing at certain company...I liked it too, but of course, I preferred Max as more knowledge bout it...and we had more free plugins and middleware...Though the coders made our own plugins and c++ stuff for both , by then...

For modelling, anything does, actually, is a matter of choice...though I think some tools are more capable than others, and some faster than others...

So, I like Max. And I also like XSI and Blender. Yet though keep prefering the viewport navigation of Max , or Wings...

Bout the zoom issue, doesn't hapen I think in User view, only in Perspective...

Bob3d(Posted 2005) [#21]

128 thread pages at cgtalk...

that's a place allways with majority of maya ppl...

Many really afraid of Maya disappearing or merging with max.

I think an strong possibility is Autodesk just selling both tools as specialized tools, or marketed each at a field...

ie: maya for films, Max for games.


Both sharing technology (but looks like internally maybe too different for much merge...)

Or just doing a whole new thing for Max9 (which I heard some time before all this was anounced) ...which someone told me it was gonna be quite adifferent UI to what max was allways, and surely to Maya , too. Go guess.

The fact is Maya users base is huge. I don't think they can eliminate easily Maya. I think a big possibility is stuff will continue similar to users in the matter that maya and max will simply continue, perhaps sharing some technology.
Or even just as they did, but doing that weird thing of "hot linking", to connect stuff in a more internal way than simple export plugins...that, if well done, could only benefit final users of both. But who knows.

BTW, some data I collected..

"...Autodesk make $1.234billion a year and alias make $83million..."

Which seems why it has an explanation...

Autodesk has a load of products, much more than Alias, if I'm correct. And makes money in much other ways than Max, surely.

Maybe will be Maya go slowly be left in the dust, by Autodesk? Or will continue as 2 products, even with more strenght? More strenght, when both products are under same company? Is that really possible?? Who knows.

With the info that pops out of usual forums (at cgtalk spoke even a guy supposed to work as engineer at Alias, and I don't see in his post that he actually knows what will happen) , google, business places, I haven't been able to find a better guess...

AdrianT(Posted 2005) [#22]
Don't know but Maya's mareting strategy was very interesting. $10,000 per licence but big companies that say they use maya get it for free.

I don't know how much of that goes on, but it's also interesting that almost all apps are used these days. Max has some distinct advantages for post compositing in 2D because of a couple of proprietary formats that export 3D information in 2D renders, like Z buffer info etc. object and material ID's lighting in 3d withn a 2d image using combustion.


So far it's been 3dsmax only, I expect one of the first things we will see is max sharing discreets proprietary formats like rpf and rla with maya.