Community Forums/Developer Stations/Messiah

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#1]

I would like to buy the animator module of Messiah Studio.
Does it work with Blitz3D?
Messiah can export the .x file but Blitz3d use an old .x file version,as far as I know.

thanks in advance

Bob3d(Posted 2004) [#2]
Ultimate Unwrap....

Bob3d(Posted 2004) [#3]
sorry, I mean, you can convert any dx8 or 9, etc, x file with bones and weights into a full b3d file with bones and weights, with Ultimate Unwrap .It costs 40$. there are some tricks to know, but the workflow works really great for character animations.

I suppose you want to buy the 239 3d package module -and standalone version- of messiah....looks like a kickass choice for animation.

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#4]

Yes ,I have in mind to buy the 239 usd package module stand alone version.

boomboom(Posted 2004) [#5]
I recently emailed them asking about it. Still waiting for replys

Mustang(Posted 2004) [#6]
We just reviewed all the major packages to find a replacement for our Lightwave in animating work because, well, LW sucks quite a lot in animating work (complex characters). We reviewed Messiah too because of it's "closeness" to the LW but found it almost just as troublesome as LW... also it's a new product but updates are not that frequent and email support sucked.

Bob3d(Posted 2004) [#7]
Mustang,I suppose your company is related to real time, more than movie rendering... so, what about XSI? It has quite a nice character animation workflow.

And Cinema4d? it's got not any game model format export but only one FBX, which maybe of some use(LW supports it). yet though I don't know how good are those bones.

Motion Builder? Maya Complete? I suppose you have looked at those deeply... :)

I must say that at the end, while the only thing I know a bit deeper is Character Studio (which has some big advantages, and some big problems) , I think at the very end I prefer bones. Some in the Mirai(with that IK) style would be ideal. XSI seems to have a great workflow in that, even in Foundation cheap version. And ur getting a good poly modelling, uv mapping, gi renderings and can do lightmaps and normal maps with it...But yep, better have an screen with 1280x1024 and not th etypical 60hz, but at least 85Hz, or it come spretty unusable...or work with hotkeys or custom layout, like some of us do...

Some guy working in an anim company told me CAT is gonna replace soon Character STudio if continues so. Seem sis quite more advanced, and also is a Max plugin (dunno if u can find it for Lightwave)

Mustang(Posted 2004) [#8]
Mustang,I suppose your company is related to real time, more than movie rendering... so, what about XSI? It has quite a nice character animation workflow.


After the evaluation it was The One. Not only does it have rigging & animating tools that rock, but it's modeling tools are looking better than what LW has (and that's something). Our coders liked a lot dotxsi export ( for engine pipeline/integration) and the SDL docs were REALLY comprehensive. XSI is a good choice because it has EVERYTHING in one package; good modeler, good animation tools, normal map baker and top-notch renderer although we don't use that much.

Motion builder (too limited) and Maya (more expensive than XSI, and animation only) were looked at too of course, as well as MAX + CAT (too expensive). Cinema4D was dropped from the start and we didn't look at it.

Bob3d(Posted 2004) [#9]
Just the concept I have in mind. Great to see companies and professional are all getting to a similar conclussion about XSI. :)

Indeed, I just read in the Fundamentals book (sometimes you are fed up of computers and is nice to read a book ;)..the book though comes really short, is not of much use, if used as only doc. ) and got the surprise (now I am not sure if I read it somhwere else) of a sentence saying something like "a featured that was important for all the Game team". They have a game They seem to have a section in the company dedicated to the game engines stuff. It is said that dotXSI is really good to port stuff to engines...also something about an sdk for all that, too.

yes, the uv mapping is great , too. The green matching colors of Max for knowing what stitchs with what in real 3d, (while in uv editor) is also there, every feature I know well and used in my main workflows with Max or others, is already there(even lightmaps)...only...really well thought. The thing's a creature in its own, and must be learnt every bit. I watched the other day the photons/gi rendering movie, and is greatly explained. You end up knowing general 3d stuff with it, if you did not touch that area (rendering) too much...The control you have about stuff is like at a lower level, you control a lot of stuff, and the quick region renderer helps a lot.

I really suffered watching the movie that shows the so natural level of customization of animation and behavior for the XSI hair, told to be one of the best, if not the best, of the market....(as Foundation, or the middle one, do not have hair...only the 6k one.My only real miss...and just as would play with it, not for games ;) )

I haven't had a deep look at modelling tools, but if you like them, coming from Lightwave, must be really good :)

What I can only say is...the free animated x exporter(have not tested the importer) worked really nice later on opening in x viewers and Ultimate Unwrap conversion to b3d. The pin bone helper, triggered by hotkey, really a nice thing. For the rest, in Foundation, it offers an skeleton system similar to those already in Max, etc, though very friendly.(typical bone IK chains, etc) And that only looking at it quickly in the surface... It has a load of extremely well thought features and great details.

Great to hear more people that sees it as a very good way to go :)

Just that: have a very good 17-19" monitor. ;)

Mustang(Posted 2004) [#10]

The thing's a creature in its own, and must be learnt every bit.

I made the leap from MAX to LW few years ago and managed to learn LW quickly although they are VERY different programs; I'm confident that same kind of leap can be made with XSI. We bought DVD-tutorial set as well (well it was free; limited time special offer) and the tuts that ship with the program are good too.

the free animated x exporter(have not tested the importer) worked really nice later on opening in x viewers and Ultimate Unwrap conversion to b3d.

I tried that too, because I wanted to know if I could use XSI for my own Blitz3D projects too :) --It was nice too see that my characters etc can be made and animated with XSI and then exported to DX9 .X and converted with UUW3D to .B3D... Getting UUW3D licenece year or so ago is now really paying itself! Animating characters with LW has always been pain, I'm sure that I get better and faster results with XSI.

Just that: have a very good 17-19" monitor. ;)

I have 19" Samsung SyncMaster CRT at home, and 21" Samsung SyncMaster CRT + 18" LG LCD combo at work, so I'm well prepared ;P

Bob3d(Posted 2005) [#11]
Lol, great monitor....way better than a 15" sony...hehe. Anyway, I'm doing just ok with shortcuts and some custom layouts...But yep, is a package to work with 1280x1024 and 85hz at least, ideally(there's a made 1024 layout that is ok, or the animation standard layout, quite good for organzed stuff while animating).U know, I was in the doubt of waste the bucks in an average TFT or an XSI foundation and continue with Blender...But character animation was the key thing for me: I uv map in uu and model in wings, already. The fact is the LG 17" tft was showing some colour banding that I couldn't acept, so got my money back. And was used for xsi XD ...

A 21"...yuk...I have only used 17 or 19" in jobs...nothing higher, hehe. Anyway, I'll go for a tft 17" if reaches at least 1280x1024 at 81 hz or the like...when they get cheaper.

Mustang(Posted 2005) [#12]
Well all TFTs are 60Hz... Hz doesn't really matter when you have TFT/LCD ;)

Bob3d(Posted 2005) [#13]

Is that true? So, image is not more stable, is not more relaxing when more vertical frequency is used? ..The models I was checking to buy said they had 75Hz , 82, etc... (Now I am not sure if were tft or tft-lcd...) ..I thought it was like in CRTs...


Mustang(Posted 2005) [#14]

Since LCD monitors do not employ phosphors, refresh rate is not a concern. Basically, the transistors in the LCD remain open or closed as needed until the image changes. This can be a point of confusion for some consumers, however, since most graphics cards still "ask for" a refresh rate setting. This is due to the analog nature of existing graphic cards (see "Inputs" section) and their support for CRT displays. While refresh rates do not apply to LCD monitors, most LCDs are set up to accept any settings from 60Hz and above.

It may be something else than 60Hz but it does not mean automatically that it is better... LCDs work differently than CRTs. What you SHOULD watch is "response time" and lower RT is better here. High RT (something like 20ms) produce visible ghosting that's REALLY annoying when you play games - or just use windows. Go for 16 or even 12ms if you can.

Bob3d(Posted 2005) [#15]
Thank you very much for the advice, Mustang, and I'll dig that guide :)