Where aren't people using any Quake mapping tools?

Community Forums/Developer Stations/Where aren't people using any Quake mapping tools?

sswift(Posted 2004) [#1]
There's a lot of older free editors out there for Quake, but nobody uses them to make levels for Blitz. Why is that? Is it just because of that BSP legality issue? Has anyone written to ID to try to resolve that? And couldn't someone just write a converter for the file format?

Binary_Moon(Posted 2004) [#2]
And couldn't someone just write a converter for the file format?

You mean like BSP factory?

JaviCervera(Posted 2004) [#3]
Qoole editor rocks.

sswift(Posted 2004) [#4]
"You mean like BSP factory?"

Which apparently I can't buy? :-)

BSP Factory isn't a very good name for it if that's what it does. I thought that was some kind of editor. I've never looke dat it. BSP convertor. Now that would be a good name. :-)

JaviCervera(Posted 2004) [#5]
Binary-People, BSP Factory distributors, no longer exists. Thats why you can't buy it. I will setup a ShareIt page for selling BSP Factory as soon as the new webpage for our team is finished, so everything is launched at the same time.

Anyway, if you are interested, I would happily swap a copy of BSP Factory for your Shadow System.

WarpZone(Posted 2004) [#6]
Err... wait a minute, you're going to sell a ahreware program that somebody else made and is no longer distributed? I hope you're just a storefront for Binary-People, because otherwise that's just... I dunno, wrong, somehow. That's like electronically selling copies of ZZT or Quake 1 or something because you had it lying around on your hard drive and somebody wanted to buy.

Shambler(Posted 2004) [#7]
I think you will find Mr. Jedive there wrote it lol

c5ven(Posted 2004) [#8]
i never quite understood BSP Factory. the issue with the Quake tools out there is that they use id's proprietary bsp routine. so if you use one of them, you're automatically infringing. converting that file into something else doesn't change things. you're stilling using id's tools.

am i missing something here? sure you could do this and probably not get caught. but is this verified to be a legal option?

slenkar(Posted 2004) [#9]
it would be nice if the legal issue was properly explained, it might sell a lot of copies

Ice9(Posted 2004) [#10]
It's the tools that come from id. id's bsp compiling tools, if you use those
to compile the level then you are using id's tool just like
if you used 3dstudio to make a .3ds you have to purchase
the program. In id's case you would have to purchase a
licsense for the engine.

I remember a Level pack that was not authorized by id. It
was sold in EB and id wasn't getting anything from it. You
still needed quake to run the levels but id didn't get
anything from the sale of those levels so the lawyers went
after the people who made the pack. I think that's where
all of it started.

c5ven(Posted 2004) [#11]
QERadiant isn't the compiler. and that's the issue. i've yet to see a level editor that doesn't rely on id's .bsp compiler. there's one thats been in progress (haven't checked in a while), but that's the only one afaik.

Gabriel(Posted 2004) [#12]
I thought the point of BSP Factory was that it converted the HalfLife maps that Blitz can't load. And HalfLife BSP's can indeed be compiled without the use of ID's compiler. I think Quark and the Zoner Half Life Tools are a legally sound editor and compiler combination.

This is all regurgitated from what I've read previously, though, so don't take it as fact until you've verified.

c5ven(Posted 2004) [#13]
thought so too. but assumed BSP Factory added Quake bsp to their feature set given the thread's title. weren't they going to at one time (or maybe that was people's wishful thinking)?

think you're right in that HL BSP's can be legally compiled, but pretty sure you have to use the open source compiler (Zoner's?). been awhile since i investigated this....

JaviCervera(Posted 2004) [#14]
Yeah, the legal issue is the one that Sybixsus explained. There is no problem in using Quark map editor (or Qoole, the one I use) and Zoner's Half-Life Tools, which is a third party BSP compiler released under the GPL license.

BSP Factory also supports Quake1 .bsp files, but it's an "accidental" feature, because the format is so similar to Half-Life BSPs that you can load them in BSP Factory.

c5ven(Posted 2004) [#15]
explains my confusion. musta caught only a part of the Q1 issue.

thanks for explaining.

Bob3d(Posted 2004) [#16]
BSP format, md2, md3 are free to use.
It's the id tools what, if you use them, can't use the output for comercial products.


- You CAN'T use GTKRadiant, or qeradiant for comercial projects.
- you can't use other id tools, that may involve qdata and does actually involve the q3 and q2 bsp compilers. Neither the Ydnar q3 bsp improve on it, as was based on the id bsp compiler.
- As far as I know Blitz3d only uses quake 3 BSPs.
-There's a freeware bsp compiler, but the bsp probaly is not exactly a q2 or q3 one, but seems is given the code, the format specs, a compiler, and what could be an advanced editor. Getic, is called. The author posted in BC forums, and I posted way many times the link, and all the links on this theme. Maybe this could be a way to go , at least for experienced coders...
- You can use the Zoner ZHLT compiling tools, be sure on grabbing the last one. Again, all the link sshould be in that huge database that maybe now BC forums...

-A free map editor, quite advanced, and totally free, is QUARK. It exports hallife maps, and qake, heretic, many games maps...but u allways need to configure and use a compiler with it...
- There's a wip project, seems not very usable yet, of a totally free q3 bsp compiler.
If it were ended (I think is missing the lightmaps stuff, but don't quote me on this) then you'd have the land clear. Use the quark editor and this compiler would allow totalluy free Q3 BSPs production for comercial projects. So , thi sis the third way of producing a bsp (the 3 then are: a q3 bsp-this method- , the non standard bsp with Getic, and a HL BSP with Quark (Quake Army Knife) compiled with the zhlt tools. and of course, Jedive's tool, which maybe quite easier to handle, probably. )

-I don't know of a free for comercial q2 bsp compiler. But indeed, seems the only thing that Blitz3d loads is q3 bsps.
And please, see that is possible legally, for all said above...

Anyway....BSPs have a very limited geometry generation, for the way it is. Also, these editors use to be quite limited, I tested the Unreal Editor and liked it much more; even though, I personally prefer do it all in my modeller, and have the coder do the exporter in c++ for the engine, hehe... ;)

I mean, I rather prefer to output an OBJ, load in Giles, make great lightmaps there, export the two uv channels mesh, with the lightmap and really complex geometry, and give that to the engine.