GameSpace saving system

Community Forums/Developer Stations/GameSpace saving system

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#1]

I'am having a lot of troubles with GameSpace saving system.
If I use the "Attach skin to skeleton " comand and I save in .cob or .scn file format, the application terminates when I load back the files.
If I save in .ms3d file format, it loads the mesh only , no skeleton, but if I open the same file in MilkShape it loads also the skeleton.
Thanks in advance for any suggestion

BHoltzman(Posted 2004) [#2]
I'm not sure how helpful this is, but I used to use TrueSpace until I tried to do a semi complex project with it. The program failed to operate as specified in the manual, so I replaced it with a more trustworthy program. Today I use XSI 3.5. It's worlds better than TrueSpace in terms of reliability, speed, layout, ability, complexity, etc...

XSI is on the expensive side for a modeling program but the idea of staying away from Caligari products holds for whatever modeler you might want to migrate too. Even some of the free modelers give you more reliability than GameSpace. It's true that if you have the time and patience you'll probably be able to learn how to work around the quirky tool set provided by Caligari. But it really requires a heavy commitment on your part.

Good Luck,


Perturbatio(Posted 2004) [#3]
I've had no problem with TS personally.

Depending on how you created the geometry, it *might* be badly formed. If you can load the mesh, try using the "try to fix bad geometry" button, then resave the mesh as a different file.

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#4]

It is a 3d low poly human character mesh which I purchased on the web.
The design is very clean, I do not know what GameSpace means for bad geometry
I do no have any problem to use it with MilkShape or CharacterFX.
I hope I am wrong but ,as BHoltzman said, I tend to beleive that even a cheap products are more reliable than Caligari's
I would like to hear from other GameSpace users before quitting with it
thanks in advance

Ethan3850(Posted 2004) [#5]
If it loads in to Milkshape then export it as a GameSpace model from there and then load it into GameSpace it's self. Only edit GameSpace models in GameSpace and then export them to your required format using a different filename.

GameSpace isn't the first program to crash because of "bad geometry" and it isn't the worst (nor the best). In my opinion it's usally a result of incompatability in the import/exporters of the the programs that created the model and the one your trying to load it in to.

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#6]

Yes, If I edit the model in GameSpace and I export it in MilkShape or in .b3d format, it works.
The point is that if I save my job in .cob format , the system crashes when I re-load it in GameSpace .
On other hand if I save in .ms3d format, GameSpace imports the mesh only (no skeleton)
In other words I should complete my job in one session only.
Apart from it ,I am very concerned about GameSpace.
For example Puppeteer is a great step forward vs CharacterFX animation tools.
Unfortunatly , it crashes every 30 seconds
Before throwing 299 usd out of the window I really would like to know the opinion of other GameSpace users
Thanks and regards

Perturbatio(Posted 2004) [#7]
take a look on the caligari user forums to see if anyone else is having a similar issue, and if they have found a solution.

Ethan3850(Posted 2004) [#8]
If it is crashing for you every thirty seconds or so then I wouldn't recommend buying it - you'll never get anything done. I've got the GameSpace is about to crash message about 8 times, and it has always been because I've created an edge where there should definately not be one (for example) and have been able to fix it.

To be honest I've only ever used the Save Scene function (apart from when exporting) as I do all my work using the New Project and Insert Scene functions in the respective libraries - but saving as a cob seems to work fine for me... but I don't see why you would need to use it for work in Blitz unless you wanted to created an animated movie.

Isaac P(Posted 2004) [#9]
Sounds like the .cob importer/exporter is screwed or it needs its settings adjusted.. I only use the b3d exporter myself

cermit(Posted 2004) [#10]
Gamespace isnt crashing that much on itself, it depends on how people uses its tools.
I hope Caligari will make a patch for this very soon since its not very good while learning GS.
The Import|Export isnt that bad, it mostly depends on what 3D modeler the 3D file was created
with(That goes for not only GS).

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#11]
Actually I myself doubt that a 6.1 version(TrueSpace) can still have such basic problems.
I tend to think that I am doing something wrong, as ceremit said.
I did not mention an important issue, sorry for that.
No problem if I build the skeleton myself using GameSpace tools, I can save and reload the .cob file, fine.
The problems occurs when I merge the prefabricated skeletons supplied with puppeeter and with truebones (It is truespace a plug in ) with my mesh

mearrin69(Posted 2004) [#12]
Have you tried e-mailing Caligari customer support? I work for the company and, though I can't answer your problem, I'm sure our tech people can either solve your problem or help with a workaround.

Also, if you've found a bug I'm sure they would want to know about it - can't make a patch if no one's reported the bug ;) Cheers.

* also, it sounds like the problem might be with Puppeteer, which is a 3rd party *.tsx (plug-in). We might be able to get the vendor to issue an update if the problem really is in there.

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#13]
I did, I was told that if the problem depends on Puppeteer and Truebones I should ask the authors of the plug-ins
Honestly I can not agree with such answer.
Both Puppeter and trubones are included as a standard in GameSpace , therefore Caligari should be responsable also for them.
Not to mention that these plug-ins were the main reason why I switched from CharacterFX to GameSpace.
Honestly my gut feeling is that GameSpace has some problems with imported third parties file formats.
For example it does not import the skeleton if a .ms3d file, only the mesh
Thanks in advance if you can help me

mearrin69(Posted 2004) [#14]
Yeah. I don't agree with that answer either. I'll try to get someone to look at this thread - the proper course of action is for us to talk to the 3rd party vendor and encourage them to offer a fix.

We are somewhat at their mercy because these are products that we license for inclusion - so we don't generally have the code and can't just patch it right away. But we definitely can ask the vendor to take a look and try to fix it.

See what I can do.

Ethan3850(Posted 2004) [#15]
Still don't understand why you need to use cob. Save it as a scene unless you want to add it to the object library.

Do you still have problems with the CPU optimisations etc. turned off / try working in OpenGL or Software Render rather than Direct 3D.

Puppeteer doesn't seem to like unusual degrees of freedom (like -589 -235) which GameSpace will allow you to set (it sometimes crashes on me if I set these values). If your resizing the skeletons or bones you could be setting up values that Puppeteer can not understand without realising it - see if the skeleton still makes sense.

You can use the Load Keyframes button on Puppeteer to load animation from one skeleton to an other, therefore if your own skeletons work you can simply copy the animation from the pre-supplied ones.

Every package I've tried has had some problem with one format or an other, I'd try and make you own rather than buy someone elses.

Don't know if any of that helps...

Alberto(Posted 2004) [#16]

saving it either as a scene or as a .cob file is the same matter.
When I reload the file,the application crashes.
It happens only if I use the "attach skin to skeleton " command and only using third parties prefabricated skeletons.
If I build the skeleton myself and I attach it to my custom mesh ,it is ok
No problem also if I save a non glued skeleton plus my mesh as a scene
If I save in .ms3d format , I lose the skeleton when reloading.
The point is that my target was to use the animations supplied with Puppeter and Truebones
The only solution I can see is to finish my job in one session only, which you would agree it is not so nice.
Actually I deform the skeletons to fit my mesh (Well I suppose , it is normal !!!)
I even planned to add some bones to the prefabricated skeletons ( I did not dare to do it, so far )
Every package you have tried had some problem, well , I do not have a long experience with 3d packages but I have never had any serious problem with low cost software such as MilkShape or CharacterFX ( I have been importing and exporting any kind of file formats using MilkShape, no problem , never )
My very personal opinion is that Caligari tried to adjust his TrueSpace to make it suitable for low polys application, for obvious reasons.
Probably it is not so easy, GameSpace should have been design from the root, including the file format.
However If Caligari fix the bugs or If I realize that I am doing somrthing wrong, I will for sure inform Blitz members.
The large hobbyest game programming comunity deserve a package such as GameSpace

Ethan3850(Posted 2004) [#17]
No problem also if I save a non glued skeleton

Service Pack 1 fixes "multiple" bugs when using drag and drop to glue/unglue stuff in the scene editor - doesn't sound like it'll fix your problem, but you never know.

The point is that my target was to use the animations supplied with Puppeter

Puppeteer >> Skeletons >> Load/Save Keyframes. As long as your skeleton is named correctly you can transfer the animations from the prefabricated skeletons to your own. If you want to try it I would suggest attaching your skeleton to your mesh and then loading in the keyframes and saving to a new file after each sequence of animation has successfully been ammended.

It does however sound to me like you and gameSpace just aren't going to get along - for $299 it ain't worth the stress.

Can't think of an other "cheap" software that comes with predefined animations - the only thing I can think of as a long shot is finding cheap/free motion capture data. 3D Canvas can also import motion capture data, unfortunately it can't export a b3d so you will need an intermediate package to convert one of it's export formats - not sure what other software can handle motion capture as I haven't really used it.

Perhaps if you post a "HELP - Need cheap solutions" topic someone will point you to a piece of software that will do what you want, but it sounds to me as if your pretty up on all those already.