Zbrush normal mapping ...Community Forums/Developer Stations/Zbrush normal mapping ...
| very interesting|
(2000 polygons !!)
| wow |
| She looks very ill, but wow pretty amazing detail |
are you sure you didn't leave off a couple of zeros there?
| Zbrush 2 it's Rock ! |
| I can do that in 2. |
as a single textured polygon you mean i.e. with a picture of the girl on it?
| Go on then Halo, show us, we'd all love to see it. ;p|
That looks....wow. 2,000 polys!?
| 20,000 at least. OR it's flat. Give us a link or the triangulation please. |
| Guess when this was posted. |
| she looks like she has got hayfever |
| There ya go, 2 polys. Without motion, you can't really judge the image at all:|
| She's from Silent Hill |
| 2000 sounds about right. was mapping similar level stuff few months back - but those were map objects where i used CAD.|
check the Spiraloid forums. Bay Raitt (WETA) and some others were posting images some time ago and posting short animations. they were beta-testing Zbrush and incorporating into LoTR. amazing stuff.
| Zbrush has evolved remarkably. I remember their new Bumpmaping stuff. Excellent. |
| ZBrush is kind of a magic tool isnt it :) |
| I think that the silhuette / outline looks way too smooth for 2000 poly model... look at the shoulders and jaw-line. |
| God Damn thats off the hook. Thats some professional ass modeling. |
I think that the silhuette / outline looks way too smooth for 2000 poly model... look at the shoulders and jaw-line.Thats exactly what I meant when I said it's more like 20,000 than 2,000.
| This is a special Bumpmapping Feature it's using when it's rendering internally. The Bumpmap does actually affect the Mesh. Tho this effect cannot be ported to DirectX, AFAIK.|
EDIT - not bumpmapping, rather dispacement mapping.
Check this out:
Actually every Application that is using Displacement Maps is handling it diffrently. Some create additional Tris such as 3dsMax, other do it pixelbased. Zbrush claims to do it as a redner effect that does not add triangles to the mesh temporarily, and therefore it does not slow things down.
| In actual fact this does increase geometry.|
It can only be implimented in realtime if you have a card capable of it. Matrox Parhelia is capable of it.
What happens with zbrush and max etc, is that at RENDER TIME, they generate a new mesh on the fly, whic is rendered instead.
The only reason this is used in max and zbrush is because it keeps the viewport speed going at a fair pace.
Take a look at parhelia though, as it DOES do displacement mapping in hardware and is compatible with zbrush displacement maps. These are nothing new, having been around for many years now, but what is new, is the hardware rendering of it with matrox etc.
| " In actual fact this does increase geometry.|
It can only be implimented in realtime if you have a card capable of it. Matrox Parhelia is capable of it. "
Acutally there's a new displacement mapping technique which does not rely on creating extra polygons and which will work on a variety of 3D cards. It uses a pixel shader to distort the image at runtime. Looks convincing. It's what that Unreal video was doing.
| is this available on pixel shaders 2.1? |
| I don't know. |
There's a PDF there on one of the first links which describes one method of doing it, but it does not sound at all like the simple method I read about on a game developer forum a while back. I'll look around for that.
| I think that you are talking about "parallax bump mapping"... AKA "offset bump mapping" AKA "what-was-the-UT-hype-marketing-name-for-this-same-technique"...|
IMO it does not need anything special HW, is fast and easy to do - but works only with tiled surfaces (like wall with infinitely tiling brick texture or floor with cobblestone texture).
I think that I even posted ages ago a link to a demo that demonstrated this.
| "IMO it does not need anything special HW, is fast and easy to do - but works only with tiled surfaces (like wall with infinitely tiling brick texture or floor with cobblestone texture)."|
Um.. aren't all surface "tiled"? All textures pretty much repeat. And if they don't, they repeat just once, which is a repeat. Unless you mean it doesn't work with UV clamping, and who cares about that?
| I just read that docuemtn, and yeah that is what I was talking about. |
| talking about this?|
never thought of it as a "displacement" technique. i still think of displacement in terms of geometry. interesting stuff tho.
| Ohhhhhhhhh, come oooooooon....|
2000 polys only one eye !!!!
Show me a wireframe view and I probably believe this 50% ... :)
I beleive it's using 2000 polygons. But it's using 2000 polygons with a DISPLACEMENT map. What that means is a heightmap that creates additional polygons at render time. It speeds up rendering and editing.
" talking about this? "
Yes. That is the thread I saw originally.
Btw, the Unreal guys apparently refer to that technique as "virtual displacement mapping" because the surface isn't actually displaced.
I apparently mis-remmebered what this technique was capable of. This technique will not make the surface appear bumpy when viewed edge-on. And it will not affect the actual outline of the object. It only distorts the texture coordinates so that they APPEAR as though you can see the sides of the bricks. This trick apparently works best when you're looking at the wall head on, plus or minus 45 degrees or so. And it does not like heightmaps which have sharp changes in height.
| So, if I understand well,... it is as there are a 2000 poly model used only to generate the bump effect plus another model (textured model) with another amount of polys, is it right? |
| There is a 2000 poly model, with a texture applied, that at rendr time increases the polygon count, and adds additional bumps in the surface.|
Now the model would not look like this in a game UNLESS you applied that "displacement map" to it, and the 3D card supported displacement maps.
The "real" underlying model would be much more angular, I presume.
| Got it :)|
| the normalmap texture applied to the 2000 poly model is generated by a very high rez version of the same model. using both models (one atop the other) vector information is essentially translated from the high-rez to the low-rez which then stores the info in a normalmap. there are a couple of different spatial versions to account for how the objects are viewed.|
usually the high-rez model is hundreds of thousand of tri's (can be nurbs, subD or polygons). a 2000 poly model is typical of what seems to be getting used for ingame or animation purposes lately. and yes, it'll appear angular because the visual trickery fails in profile. the model can also have layers of maps - regular texture/color maps, bump maps (good for fine details), and normalmaps. additionally, true displacement maps can be added, but i've only seen that for animation and not for games...which apparently has arrived.
| >> And it will not affect the actual outline of the object.<<|
This is the special thing about the displacement method used by zbrush - it actually affects the outline - unlike ordinary bumpmapping.
| [edit - answered my own question...] |
| first class artwork, impressive. did she recently switched to apple? |